LUA DE SÃO JORGE

Gabriel Vituri

Interview by L. Valena

Can you please describe what you responded to?

I got a series of three photos. As soon as I got them, I was pretty sure they were self portraits. In the first one, I saw this thing that looked like a camera- a medium or large-format camera. There's someone behind it, and it just seems like a self portrait. The second one, it was crazy, because it was very different. I could see just the back of the person in the picture, his butt and his feet, and the background was different. And in the third picture I could really see the person- I assume it is the same person. I received these three pictures, and they looked very connected to each other. Like they have some kind of movement, or are part of a process.

My first impression was 'Surprise!' I wasn't expecting that. I knew about Bait/Switch, and I had seen some work on it, and I wasn't really sure if I would get a photograph, or another kind of work. It felt like something was being born during these three pictures. The first thing I did was print all three of them, because it's how I like to work. I hung them on the wall, because it helps me get distance and at the same time get more intimate. I decided that first I would just print the pictures, hang them on the wall near where I do my work, and let's see what comes to mind.

What happened next?

The next day, when I sat down to work on this, two things came to my mind immediately, and both are very related to the place where I live, Brazil. This kind of art is really persecuted here. Religious people, and conservatives, but above all our government would say this is so perverted and should be banned.

Really?!

Yeah. We are faced with this situation in Brazil, in the last two years. Since the idiot was elected, we are really facing some kind of persecution too, more for work like this art piece. This is something people would try to forbid being exhibited, maybe. I'm not sure. It reminded me that there are some photographers and artists here who are for example trying to make work with trans women, trying to lift this struggle against the conservatives, which are really merged in Brazil. This work is kind of provocative, and that's nice. That's what came to my mind at first. And the other thing that I noticed, which is totally not related to the first thought, is the plant in the third image. That is a very common plant, which we all have here. I have some at home. We call it the Sword of Saint George. His sword will protect you. And people have this plant here because it protects your home, or the place where you work. It's not just Catholic, but also in other religions too. But it's a thing here. It's very common to have this plant here. It got my attention. When I saw the third picture, it appeared to me to be an image of strength. Very strong and concrete. Those were my first reactions.

Looking at these process shots, you ascribed some words to these images. How about these others- 'lust' and 'faith'?

I was trying to think about the pictures- trying to divide them, but not make them separate. I looked that them, and did some research about the plants, to think what each one of them could transmit. It was very clear to me that in the first picture, there was some lust there. Some exhibition. I don't know if it's the way this object, maybe a camera, appears. I saw lust there. I tried to divide them, to see if I could put them all together when I started to work. The picture is not very clear. I had to assume some things, and his left arm I see has some kind of movement. Almost like an invitation, but also some shyness. Some kind of seduction game. And also, it's very related to what I was saying before. We are facing some time in which this kind of art is not very well accepted. It’s accepted between artists, or course. But between the bureaucrats or something. That's why I thought of it as a representation of lust.

The second one, on the other hand, is kind of reverent. It's a position... it's vulnerable. With your back turned and without clothes. There is a lot of faith in that. Or some kind of devotion. But that's why I thought about it like faith. It's not a religious image, that's not what I'm saying. It looks to me like it's open. You're not trying to protect yourself- you're giving yourself to some entity. I see not religion, but some kind of divinity. Faith. Not being self-defensive. There is some freedom in it. Although sometimes religion is the opposite of freedom.

So you have these words, and you've kind of processed these images in your head. How did you go about making the work that you made from there?

Before I started shooting, I started to think in a more technical way. Would I try one picture which would synthesize my interpretation of this series, or if I would respond to each picture with another picture. Of course, that's not really the point. I had to try some tests, and see what would come in the end. First was I thinking about shooting with a medium-format film camera, but I realized it wouldn't fit into the timeframe. I had two weeks. I wouldn't have the time to develop the film, or find someone to develop the film. So I decided not to focus on the technique, but on the image. The representation. So I decided not to work on film.

I walk a lot in my neighborhood because my daughter is two and a half, and she really likes to be outside. So we're always walking and finding some excuse to be outside. To go to the bakery, go to the park, whatever. So I started to walk, and all the time I was walking I was just trying to figure out how the hell to respond to that. It gave me so many different impressions, I wasn't really sure what I would photograph, or how I would respond to that. Every time I went out, I would just have those three images on my mind. I had to decide what they were giving me, how I felt when they came to me, and then let me think. What do I see in the streets? And then I started to realize. Something that's become more popular over the past twenty years are evangelical churches- there are plenty of them here. I thought maybe I would photograph them to see how disconnected from the pictures they are.

I started walking, and making some tests with my mobile phone when I was in the street. Trying to photograph some of these churches, which are not really churches because they're just like in building that could be anything, like a pizzeria, but they are churches. And also, the plants. The Sword of St George! They represent a lot, so I took a more proper look at them when they came into my daily routine.

I wasn't sure what the second and third picture would be, but it was pretty clear to me that it was the picture I wanted to take to respond to the first picture was the public telephone with all the stickers. Because as I said, lust was the keyword. I had to photograph those stickers. I moved to São Paulo twelve years ago, and this really caught my attention the first years I was here. Back then, we had mobile phones, but sometimes you had to use a public telephone. I always found it funny, because you had these stickers on the telephone, and it's so crazy. They're very little, and you have to put a lot of information there. I couldn't believe I had never photographed them before. I assume you don't understand what is written on the stickers because they're in Portuguese.

You're right!

They are very explicit. So I thought I would take a picture of this- I thought that just walking with my camera, and it would be easy to find, because I thought they were everywhere. But public telephones on the street are disappearing here. And then I found out that the companies that are responsible for maintaining them are no longer obligated to invest in them. They have other priorities. Fast internet, all that stuff. Most of the public telephones on the streets are not working. They are all broken. It's been very common that those public telephones were broken, but I didn't know they were so broken. None of them were working, as I expected. But what I didn't imagine, was that also the stickers weren't as abundant as they were. Where are all the stickers? This public telephone I found was great because there are stickers with pictures. You have the stickers with the pictures then you also have the picture of the stickers. So I was really glad I could find this public telephone. Which of course was not working...

But the message was definitely there.

Yeah exactly.

How about the second image?

The second one, I was trying to figure out how to respond to the idea 'faith'. So these churches, maybe they're not exactly what I'm looking for, but I'm looking for some kind of divinity. So I came to this building in the picture. Written there is 'Ave Maria'. It's kind of old-fashioned, but you see it's not a church- it looks kind of commercial. It's a book publishing company for religious books. It speaks more to what I saw in the prompt than just photographing a church. It feels like it's another way to connect to divinity, which is not as literal. You go to church to get on your knees and pray. Also I like the movement. You see the person in the second picture anchors this black hole of the picture I took. I see a very continual movement from one to another. It's not explicitly a religious space. You don't see any cross, or holy images, just the words 'Ave Maria'. It made me think it was the right picture.

And the third image- you had talked about this plant. Where was this particular plant?

It's funny, because I was going to my yoga class. I was bothered, thinking about this. I was like man, I can't stand there for an hour, thinking about that picture. It's supposed to be the opposite- it’s supposed to clear my mind. It was Friday already. What could I do? And then when I got there, I saw those plants in front of the painting. I went to my yoga class, and kept thinking about this during my yoga class. It annoyed me for awhile, but I could handle it. So I decided that when I was leaving, I would have to take the picture. Maybe that's what I was looking for. I liked the colors- the color of the vase. I like the background. It reminded me of the background in the prompt. When my yoga class finished, I waited for everyone to leave. So I put my shoes on very slowly. When you go to yoga, you also connect with some kind of divinity. Something more than your daily routine. These plants were protecting the space, as they are protecting the person in the third picture of the prompt. They felt linked to each other.

Do you have any advice for someone else doing this?

Slow your expectations. You're thinking that there is a right or a wrong answer, but that's not the point. It's too different, one piece from another. They are different, the artists are different and they live in different contexts. So if I could give advice, it would be to dive into it, but when you come out again, you have to become very self centered. Your work is not the work you got. Dive, and go into it, but when you come out again, remember that your work is your work. That's what's nice about being part of this. I would never have expected this kind of work, and it's part of my life now.

Call Number: Y28VA | Y33VA.viL

Gabriel Vituri is a São Paulo-based journalist, researcher, and photographer. He is currently pursuing a doctorate degree focused on the structures of violence and police organizations as well as working as a freelance writer and editor. In 2017, prompted by the birth of his daughter, he began developing his artistic practice as a photographer, exploring the themes of intimacy, cohabitation, encounters, and domesticity.